Boys are stupid
I'm beginning to see what The Duckling means when she speaks about how deeply the patriarchy is ingrained in our pysche. But I think today I would've made her proud.
Today in class someone asked the professor how long our essays should be when we take the test. She responded with, "I want you to write until it's good. If that takes two pages, so be it. If it takes ten, more power to you."
This guy spoke up to say, "My high school history teacher used to say the following regarding paper length: I think of paper length like I think of women's skirts. I want them long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting."
I thought that was a really sexist thing to say but wasn't going to respond until some dipshit in front of him said, "Oh my god, that's awesome! Hilarious!"
At that point, I had to respond. "You're kidding, right? Awesome? That's a joke, right?"
He informed me that he wasn't kidding and it was indeed "awesome."
I said, "It's an incredibly sexist comment and I can't believe someone thought it was appropriate to bring up in an academic setting and once again, the patriarchy rears its ugly head!"
The professor quickly proceeded to change the subject, but not before she tossed a wink my way.
11 comments:
I fail to see how the comment was sexist. Sure it was a bit crass, but in a room full of adults I don't think it even rises to the level of inappropriate. It is by no means discriminatory on the basis of sex, the definition provided by wordnet. Imagine a female teacher (or a gay male one. Let's not be sexist.) saying she likes her kilts the same way.
You're title on the other hand sounds pretty sexist to me. Presumably that was on purpose.
Love,
Your Sexist Pig Friend
Oh my God, that's awesome. Way to tell the patriarchy where to stick it! As much as I enjoy blaming the patriarchy, it can be so hard to speak out about it. Too bad the professor couldn't offer more than a wink to back you up.
P.S. As I was writing this Your Sexist Pig Friend posted his (I assume) comment. It's obvious to me that reducing women's body parts to a subject of male interest is inappropriate. And, although many people will disagree with me, I don't think the comment would be the same when directed at a male. The patriarchy sets up an imbalance of power under which comments and actions involving males vs. females have to be viewed differently, but that's a long, long discussion, which a blog comment would not do justice.
Silly silly Sexist Pig Friend.
You see, the comment was sexist because he denigrated women to the point of being nothing but vaginas. I see from your thoughtless response that you fail to understand how one little joke can remind the world of the "place" of women, but rather than making a valid point all you've done is reiterate for me the fact that we live in a patriarchal society.
Perhaps you should take some time to study some history so that you can see just how deeply this patriarchy is ingrained in every one of us. It goes back as far as history does. And as long as people are allowed to make jokes like this in a public forum without being called out on it, nothing will change. (Men and women should be called out for making such comments - it just so happens that the two offenders in my story were men whom I happen to have a history with of being treated as less than because I am a female.)
But I must agree with The Duckling when she points out that we live in a society that weighs these comments according to an imbalance of power. If you don't believe me, become a woman. And if you are by chance a woman, open your eyes.
As for my title, you are correct, it was sexist and I stand by it. The two guys mentioned in my story treat me, and every other woman in the class (and I presume outside of the class,) as less than equal. Therefore they are boys and they are stupid. Not all of the male persuasion are stupid - these boys are.
You really have gone off the deep end havent you?
If you really want to undermine the our horribly injust patriarchy, you should spend your time emphasizing the view that men are objects too.
In other words, tell a joke that goes the other direction. Something like "6 pages is good... for you boys, that'll look like about 4" - Lame, but it was off the top of my head.
If you keep taking this self righteous attitude about eliminating a patriarchy, there is a strong implication that you are after more than equality - you want dominance, and are no better than those you relentlessly mock.
In Conclusion, Don't get your panties in a bunch.
p.s. This comment is affectionately titled "Women are Sluts". I can apparently make a post titled that because some women are, in fact, sluts, and you've stated in these comments that that justifies such a totally sweeping statement.
- Not the same sexist pig
Not the Same Sexist Pig:
Obviously you failed to read my above response to the original Sexist Pig wherein I stated that not all boys are stupid but those two are because, as I mentioned, I have a history with these two guys and they consistently try to prove the point that women are not worth as much as men.
I will not stoop to telling jokes about penis size in a classroom setting because that would be just as inappropriate as a man making an analogy between a woman's skirt length with reference to her genitalia and the length of a paper.
Contrary to what your opinion is of me, I do not want dominance as I see no need for one sex to have dominance over another. However, equality is something I want and no matter what you or anyone else says, we do not have that in this society. If you don't believe me, come sit in on my classes. Observe for yourself what I have noticed since being at this institution - women are at a serious disadvantage in this atmosphere. Women are not treated as equals and this will continue to be the case as long as you and others refuse to see the truth of the matter.
I find it interesting that it is only men (so far) who have said that they do not understand how the comment made in class was sexist yet every woman I have talked to has found the comment as offensive as I did. To say that I have "gone off the deep end" or that I am being irrational (which is what a male said to me earlier today) is to insult my intelligence and my worth as a human being.
Rather than attacking me and my opinions, maybe you could help the situation by allowing yourself to see how comments like the one made in class today do nothing to aid the search for academia but rather hurt every person involved. When one group of people is disenfranchised because of another group, equality does not and cannot exist.
Not the Same Sexist Pig-
You want to see someone go "off the deep end" and get their "panties in a bunch?" How about when some sexist pig suggests that believing it is inappropriate to make rude comments about women is the same as vying for "dominance?" Hey Patriarchy, defensive much?
Besides, patriarchy isn't about men vs. women. The patriarchy is an entire cultural and societal system, which undermines the basic humanity of both men and women. (Although women do get the *much* shorter end of that stick.) How about you join us in our "self righteous attitude" and try to do right by everyone?
I realize that posting here is essentially the same as walking into a church and expecting to have a rational argument over the statement "God doesn't exist" - one side is dead set in their view/belief, and isn't interested in a discussion as much as they are in an echo chamber where others of the same view can reinforce them.
That said, the gist of my post was to stop being so fucking uptight, and the response i got was that I was "defending the patriarchy" and that a joke about women as sex objects is completely unacceptable.
Bullshit.
People make fun of all sorts of things all the time. Even things they respect. I respect women (though I doubt you will take me at my word on that). That doesn't mean that I won't joke about them sexually. Finding humor in a joke doesn't necessarilly define one's beliefs.
Taking a self righteous stance and refusing to stoop to someone elses level is exactly why you are ineffective. Demanding "Treat us equally" will get you nothing but mockery and scorn. Maybe you got a wink from your professor, but my guess is 75%+ of your class left thinking you were an uptight bitch.
I'm going to open another can of worms, because I love watching the politically correct shocked responses you post. It's very predictable.
Racism has been significantly diminished among youth not by demanding that people not be racist, but by embracing and mocking all the extreme racist stereotypes. Back in the day, people were afraid to touch it. Now they joke about it, slurs get flung around, and the boundaries blur. But the underlying hatred is far far diminshed.
I would argue that the same applies here. But you won't care. You've already written me off as just another sexist male with nothing to add to the conversation. Oh, and I never said I was male. You made that assumption based on the fact that I disagreed. I await your firey, robotic, and anger-filled talking-points responses with glee.
p.s. This comment is affectionately titled "Women are Sluts". I can apparently make a post titled that because some women are, in fact, sluts, and you've stated in these comments that that justifies such a totally sweeping statement.
NTSSP - Holly says that the boys in question in this particular comment are stupid. So if you're following her rules, then you must be stating that you feel the women in this post are sluts. You sure you wanna go down that particular dirt road?
-Dave-o-ramA-
Not the Same Sexist Pig:
…one side is dead set in their view/belief, and isn't interested in a discussion as much as they are in an echo chamber where others of the same view can reinforce them.
While I admit that I feel strongly about equal rights for all people, I will say that I am not “dead set” in my views/beliefs. I have changed my mind on things many times because someone made an argument so convincingly that my views had no choice but to be changed. Also, while it is always nice and convenient to have ones views reinforced by those around them, one of the reasons I post on this blog is to start a dialogue that will challenge the way I view things. I look forward to reading differing opinions because it forces me to rethink some of the things I believe. The hardest part about that is in the attempt to not get angry at people who respond who have opinions that differ from mine. But while it’s hard, it’s not impossible. I admit that I am not always successful and there are times when I lose my temper. It’s unfortunate, but true.
…the response i got was that I was "defending the patriarchy" and that a joke about women as sex objects is completely unacceptable. Bullshit.
If you will go back and actually take the time to reread what I wrote you should be able to see that I was talking about a specific circumstance. If people want to make jokes about sexuality, they should feel free to do so. This is America and we still have the freedom of speech in this country. However, my point was that in an academic setting, a joke that equates a woman with nothing more than her vagina is inappropriate. This might be one of those views/beliefs that we will just have to agree to disagree on.
I respect women (though I doubt you will take me at my word on that).
Actually, I have no idea if you respect women or not. I have no idea who you are. You could be my mother, my best friend, a serial rapist, my boss, or someone from the other side of the world. Isn’t it great that you can choose to remain completely anonymous on the internet?
That doesn't mean that I won't joke about them sexually. Finding humor in a joke doesn't necessarilly define one's beliefs.
One can find humor in almost any situation. Again, it’s all about the power we have and the choices we make. I chose not to laugh at a joke that was derogatory towards women and was made in a classroom setting – a setting that has consistently proven to devalue women since the beginning of the semester. Perhaps in another setting I would’ve found the joke amusing. However, in this particular instance, the joke was rude and uncalled for and its only purpose was to reinforce the idea that these two guys have that they are better than women.
Taking a self righteous stance and refusing to stoop to someone elses level is exactly why you are ineffective. Demanding "Treat us equally" will get you nothing but mockery and scorn. Maybe you got a wink from your professor, but my guess is 75%+ of your class left thinking you were an uptight bitch.
Actually, I don’t think I was ineffective in that setting. I think the proof of that can be found in the fact that the women sitting around me nodded in agreement and the professor offered her support with that wink I mentioned. While it is certainly possible that a portion of the class left thinking that I am an uptight bitch, I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that I believe enough in myself to not be bothered by their opinions of me. If I helped even one person realize that it’s okay and safe to speak up when they feel slighted, then it was worth it – even if some people didn’t understand my point.
But the underlying hatred is far far diminshed.
I find it interesting that you bring racism into a debate about equality among the sexes. I also have to disagree with your assessment. I do not believe that racism is “far, far diminished”, in a classroom setting or in the general psyche. Granted, steps have been taken to take this in the right direction but there is still a gap between things like education and earnings for minorities.
I seriously doubt that the improvements that have been made over the past several years have much, if anything, to do with the jokes people tell at the expense of minorities (or women, which is what this post was about.) Rather I think it has more to do with people beginning to understand that all people are equal, regardless of color. I believe that people are gaining that understanding due to the dialogue that has been opened in the hope of facilitating change. Change will only occur once a dialogue has been opened. If people aren’t talking about it (whatever the “it” may be), nothing will change.
You've already written me off as just another sexist male with nothing to add to the conversation. Oh, and I never said I was male. You made that assumption based on the fact that I disagreed.
Actually, I welcome your comments. Your comments offer a viewpoint in this discussion that mine cannot. I never assumed you were male – if you will reread some of the above responses, you will see that I never offered an opinion as to your sex. I don’t really care if you are male or female – if your opinions differ from mine, I will discuss those opinions with you, regardless of your sex.
Because I'm a boy and boy(s)=stupid, I'm going to leave a comment.
Oddly enough, my female 12th grade AP English teacher, who was 66 at the time, said the same thing. Perhaps she was just brought up in a different era, but the description has helped me judge my papers ever since. Maybe that's wrong and maybe not...you are welcome to judge if you wish.
Of course, I was not in the class room to hear the tone that the first male used when telling of his history teachers advice. I can only assume, based on the reaction that the tone itself was condescending and demeaning.
Sometimes our passion can cloud our reasoning. In this case, perhaps the reaction was warranted from the start and the first speaker did mean for it to be demeaning just as the second male speaker clearly found it awesome because of his stupidity, which I do believe he clearly displayed.
Perhaps the first speaker meant to pass along advice that he found helpful and in his ignorance forgot to factor in his setting and how this would affect others. This is a common mistake that we all make in our daily lives which is why we rely on the tolerance of others to forgive us of our faults and gently offer correction when needed.
Yes, boys are stupid. We do things without thinking them through and we have horrible filters on our words and actions because we often don’t take into consideration the feelings of others. That is a fault that we have to deal with just as much as our female counterparts do. It causes much heart ache for us as well because we simply don’t get it most of the time.
Yes, sometimes women can over react because they feel so strongly and think that some things are meant to be an attack or keep them in “their place.” Sometimes things are said that are never intended because so much is read between the lines and most men don’t speak between the lines.
I couldn’t tell you what happened here. But, I do know that this battle rages every day and most days, neither of the sexes start out their day wanting to fight it. The ones who are looking for a fight however, will always find one as the faults within both sexes provide ample ammunition.
-Greeneagles
After re-reading the original post, I'm surprised how out of proportion some of the comments became. Essentially Holly felt like someone made an inappropriate comment, so she spoke up and said she thought it was inappropriate and why, and then life went on. Then, all of a sudden we're undermining the entire cause of feminism by being uptight and self-righteous with our panties all in a bunch. Why is it so threatening for a woman to use her voice to speak up and say, "Hey, that's not nice"?
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